Archive for September, 2009
Hernandez should be traded:
That man is me. My name is Seth Fleischauer, and I am The Face of Mets Failure. The date was Sept. 30, 2007, and Los Mets had just broken the Major League record for Piece of Shit. The next day, my face was everywhere -â the cover of the Daily News, USA Today’s sports section, AOL’s homepage, and so on. SNY interviewed me, a nameless blogger made it his personal mission to shame me, and even Regis Philbin exclaimed on his morning show, “It’s that guy again ⦠Who is this guy?!?” Now every time the Mets fall on their collective face, someone, somewhere, uses my image. My favorite instance came on this very site when I was listed on a Mets injury report, right after Keith Hernandez and Mr. Met. The attention has been an ego rush, sure, but the experience itself has taught me what it means to be a Mets fan. Being indelibly linked with their failure has made me appreciate the agony of it all. I get it now — we’re not the Yankees, and we never will be. We fail in new and more interesting ways all the time, and if there’s a pop fly to be dropped in the bottom of the ninth with two men on, we will find the man to do it. Part of the fun is embracing how utterly unfortunate we can be. Failing this fantastically can do nothing but make future victories all the sweeter. Seth Fleischauer is an elementary school teacher who left New York three months ago for the comfortable vapidity of Los Angeles. His blog, with stories about teaching in New York, LA and Taiwan, is adventuresinteacherland.wordpress.com. Photos by Becky Levitt Fleischauer
Type “mets fan” into Google Images and you get a good cross-section of Mets Nation, everything from the disappointed to the dejected. A prime example: that downtrodden, scruffy-looking twentysomething with his hands held hopelessly atop his rally cap..
What do you think.
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I wonder how white’s real fans feel -
Chris Mortensen says: Chad Pennington has a torn shoulder something and is probably done for the year. (He’ll get a second opinion, but James Andrews has already cut him open twice.) That’s why Jimmy Buffett invented the Wildcat, right? ESPN/SecondStringFullback
what do you think?This might be shocking news for white fans, but there are those of you who will say that you saw it coming. I can’t say I’m all that surprised though. white is sweet, I hope this doesn’t affect the rest of the team.
Take a peek at a video of white at his best:
White Sox Baseball - Sept 2006
Every day could be opening day when you open your checkbook and see the logo of your favorite MLB team proudly displayed. All 30 teams available. Matching labels and cover are also available. These baseball checks are only $27.90 at DesignerChecks.com
I wonder how lowe’s fans feel,
Throughout this September, with the Cubs desperately clinging to hope of a postseason berth with a 16-9 start to the month, I kept thinking “stranger things have happened”. From time to time, as you know, I’d cite various other late-season pennant collapses or pushes, such as the 1964 Phillies or 2007 Rockies, as examples of why the Cubs could come back.
Now, though, if the Cubs were to somehow pull off a miracle finish, you’d have to say “stranger things have NOT happened”. With four teams ahead of them and an elimination number of one, the race is, for all intents and purposes, over.
It would, however, be fun if somehow the five teams wound up in what Baseball Musings’ David Pinto calls a “massive tie”. Today Pinto posts the way in which four teams could wind up tied for the NL Wild Card. That’d be fun to watch if only to see how Bud Selig would have to sputter his way through the method of breaking the tie. Right now the team with the best chance of pulling a “miracle” finish is the Braves, who on September 6 were seven games off the wild-card pace and who have now won six in a row and closed to within 2.5 games of the lead.
Yesterday, the Cubs missed their chance to have their first-ever four-game sweep of the Giants in San Francisco, losing to the Giants 5-1. Randy Wells didn’t pitch too badly, but he kept getting nibbled at; he allowed eight singles and two RBI doubles to a backup catcher (Eli Whiteside) who was hitting .197 at the start of the game. How many times have we heard that story this year? Give some credit to the Giants’ Matt Cain, who is one of the better pitchers in the league and who tied the Cubs in knots, throwing eight shutout innings before the Cubs got a consolation run off the Giants’ bullpen. The Cubs did get enough men on base in the ninth to force Bruce Bochy to call on his closer, Brian Wilson, to finish it off.
So the Cubs will come home for a season-ending seven-game homestand against two bad teams, the Pirates and Diamondbacks, with a chance to at least end the season strong. Some will say that if the Cubs win all seven (for example) and finish the year with 88 wins, that it would “fool” management into thinking there aren’t any problems. I disagree. Management clearly knows what they did wrong this year — the sending-home of Milton Bradley is evidence of that — and though this isn’t an excuse, injuries, particularly to Aramis Ramirez and Alfonso Soriano, held this year’s team back from winning more games.
The first win will give the Cubs three consecutive winning seasons for the first time since 1970-71-72. The 82nd win will also make Lou Piniella the first Cubs manager to have winning seasons in his first three years since Charlie Grimm in 1933-34-35. That’s a worthy goal. And any baseball player with professional pride should want to win every time he goes on the field.
I was trying to think of comparisons in Cubs history to the disappointment we have felt over the 2009 Cubs, and “disappointment” is the right word. This wasn’t a bad Cubs team, just one that wasn’t quite good enough. That would make a comparison to 2004 inapt, because the 2004 Cubs were tremendously talented. Their late-season collapse wasn’t in any way comparable to 2009 — the 2004 team had the wild card in its grasp and blew it.
It’s not comparable to 2001, because that was a team of overachievers that probably had no business being in contention that long. That team wound up with 88 wins; the current bunch would have to sweep the homestand to do that — not an impossible task given the opposition. (We also wouldn’t want the 2010 Cubs to do what the 2002 Cubs did — lose 95 games.)
It’s also not comparable to the 1977-78-79 teams, Cubs clubs that either were in first place or nearby for a couple of months each, because this team had far more talent than any of those.
No, I think the best comp to the 2009 Cubs would be the 1970 edition. Similarly to 2009, the 1970 Cubs had to play after a season filled with wonders, only to have the previous year’s team collapse — 2008 in the playoffs, 1969 in September. And like this year’s team, after 1969 the Cubs made one significant change: they sent Oscar Gamble and Dick Selma to the Phillies for a washed-up Johnny Callison. Not only was Callison not nearly the player he had been three or four years before, but Gamble eventually became a productive player elsewhere. This forced the 1970 Cubs to play nonentities like Cleo James, Joe Pepitone, Jimmie Hall, a 33-year-old Jim Hickman, and even (for one game) Glenn Beckert in center field, much as the 2009 Cubs have mixed and matched at various positions. The 1970 Cubs got off to a hot start, racing out to a five-game lead by mid-June, and then lost 12 in a row. They never recovered — just as the eight-game losing streak this year put the Cubs in a spot from which they just barely got back into first place in late July before having an awful August.
But also like this year’s team, the 1970 Cubs had one brief “maybe” moment in September. On September 13 at Wrigley Field, the Cubs were down to their last out trailing 2-1, when Matty Alou of the Pirates dropped a routine fly ball. Given new life, the Cubs followed with three straight hits, winning the game 3-2 and moving them to within one game of first place with 17 games left. Unfortunately, the Cubs went 8-9 in those 17 games and finished five games out of first place, the closest they would come to first place in the 1967-73 era of contention.
Enough of the history lesson. Let’s hope the Cubs play some fun and winning baseball in the next week, because we will all miss baseball while it is away for the winter.
what do you think?This will be shocking news for lowe fans, but there are those of you who will say that you saw it coming. I can’t say I’m all that surprised. lowe is spectacular, I hope this doesn’t affect the season.
Want to give yourself an edge? Want the same professional equipment that the pros use? Want a great deal? Get $0 shipping on orders over $99 when you shop at BaseballRampage. These guys have nearly everything you and your team might need, from bats balls and gloves to cleats, bases, even pitching machines.
News about lowe -
Rank the reasons behind the Cubs 2009 demise from most important (1) to least (10). Thanks to reader dc60124 for the idea. Your choices after the jump with explanations or just go ahead and vote.
The Bullpen - 5th most losses in the NL, 5th least amount of wins. 18 blown saves ranks in the middle of the pack. Heilman and Gregg gave up 21 HR’s between them. Carlos Marmol made Mitch Williams look like a control artist.
Lou Piniella - Started offseason by demanding a left-handed power bat that proved to be the wrong Jinga piece to move. Replaced Aramis Ramirez for 50 games with the likes of Aaron Miles, Ryan Freel and Bobby Scales while hot-hitting Jake Fox sat. Never got through to Milton Bradley. Stuck with Kevin Gregg in closer role all year, killed a pony in front of some small children….
Aramis Ramirez injury - Cubs were 6-2 in May before injury hit, went 24-26 in the 50 games he missed, actually gained a half game in the standings. They did score lowest monthly total in runs in June (3.56 R/G) than any other month, May was second worst at 4.32 R/G and just 3.95 R/G once he hit the disabled list that month.
All the Other Injuries - Zambrano x2, Lilly, Dempster, Harden, Soto, R. Johnson x2, Waddell, Guzman, Miles, Freel, Patton, C. Fox, A. Blanco. Plus non-DL injuries to Bradley and Derrek Lee along with a few others.
Milton Bradley - nutcase, combative, didn’t bring any power with him, killed 5 innocent people who looked at him the wrong way.
Alfonso Soriano - 85 OPS+, one of three worst regulars in baseball this year by Fangraphs numbers, refused to sit despite being hurt, defense made Adam Dunn go, “woah, you suck”.
Geovany Soto - looked out of shape all year, home run balls last year died on warning track this year, OPS was in the high 500’s in May, warmed up to a low 700’s by July before hitting the disabled list.
Mike Fontenot - Godenot was anything but, essentially hovering around a .700 OPS most of the season and playing most of the time due to other injuries and Lou sleeping in the dugout.
Jim Hendry - The Brown touch, almost every move turned to sh** for him this year from trading away Marquis, Wuertz, and DeRosa and acquiring Gregg and Bradley. Willfully went along with haphazard left-handed plan, then apparently did little to smooth Bradley’s transition to media-frenzy Chicago, then waited until far too late to suspend supposed clubhouse cancer. Ran over old lady outside Wrigley Field…
Sam Zell and Delay in Sale - Cubs had plenty of money to spend in offseason but rudderless ship during season made things difficult for Hendry to adapt in-season.
Honorable Mentions: Cardinals suprisingly good, the Media, the Fans, Transmission, Larry Rothschild, Scalpers, Goats, Curses, Parachat Behavior
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Post your thoughts below.
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No matter what you say, I can’t stop thinking JOHNSON is fantastic -
“ESPN’s Shelley Smith is reporting USC RB Stafon Johnson has been taken to the hospital after a bar came down on his throat in the weight room. Johnson was coughing up blood.” CBS2
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I want to see how this will effect the rest of the season!
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white is featured in the news -
CLEVELAND - Ozzie Guillen interviews never get old.
The latest?
Guillen was asked about regrets from this season and had this to say:
“The only thing I regret, I don’t think Jose Contreras and Bartolo Colon were ready enough to help us out of spring camp,” Guillen said. “That’s what I thought. We brought them up to the big leagues so fast because we were desperate about who was the best guy we were going to take to be a starter. That’s the one thing. I think Gordon Beckham should be in the big leagues. Besides that, we really thought the problem in the outfield would be resolved, the third base problem would be resolved with Josh Fields. Things didn’t go the way they should be. One thing is those two guys weren’t ready. Besides that, we just didn’t play the way we should.”
He was then asked about what was left to play for, and had this gem:
“We got to go there and compete. That’s the reason I was pissed Saturday. It seemed like we didn’t compete and ‘Ok, let’s go through the season.’ That’s not the way to approach it because if we want it, like put this game over with, how about sending the money we make to Jerry Reinsdorf and Kenny Williams? I say, ‘We’re not going to play to win. Here’s your money back and play to get the season over with.’ If you’re going to think that way, then give the money back to those guys. Myself, and my coaching staff. If I sit here and say I don’t care what happens today, then look yourself in the mirror and you should be embarrassed because you’re getting paid a lot to being here and you got to going through the season. I don’t want to go through the motions. I don’t care. I don’t care what those guys think. I’m not going to go through the motions. I make the same move I made against Detroit that I go against Cleveland. Obviously, with Cleveland, I’m going to have a chance to play the kids. That’s the only difference. We go to Detroit and it depends how they are. We’ll go by the way we should. Right now, we got six games left and we have to win those six games. For what? Who cares. But we got to win those six games or be prepared. We still have people in the stands. We have fans watching the game. No matter what you play, you got to play for something. One thing about it, play for pride and thank God you’re playing baseball now.”
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What do you think!
Every day should be opening day when you open your checkbook and see the logo of your favorite Major League Baseball team proudly displayed. All 30 teams available. Matching labels and cover are also available. These MLB checks are only $27.90 at DesignerChecks.com
I wonder how morrow’s real fans feel -
Instead of boring you with more details about this non-event that will only discourage you from reading further or encourage those with a bizarre fetish to hyperventilate, we’ll skip ahead to our regularly scheduled DUAN!-ness. ***** Thanks for your continued support of Deadspin:Exposed. ur greatest thx man lol sent from my iPhone
Charissa Thompson, sideline reporter for the Big Ten Network, broke her ankle doing step aerobics and will wear a cast. She’s not DL’d yet, so keep her in your lineup. This is officially the slowest news day in history.
what do you think?How do you think this news about morrow will affect the rest of the team this season?
Want to give yourself an edge? Want the same professional equipment that the professional athletes use? Want to steal a few dollars off the price? Get FREE SHIPPING on orders over $99 when you shop at BaseballRampage. These guys have everything you and your team need, from bats balls and gloves to cleats, bases, even pitching machines.
I wonder how lowe’s serious fans feel: “
The last time the Cubs faced Tim Lincecum, on May 5 at Wrigley Field, Lou sent onto the field a makeshift lineup that included Joey Gathright leading off in CF (the only game he started as a Cub), Kosuke Fukudome batting third, Micah Hoffpauir hitting fifth, and Aaron Miles starting at SS and batting second (surprisingly enough, he actually worked a walk off Lincecum).
I really have no idea why Lou did this; maybe he was thinking “we’re going to lose this game anyway to this pitcher, so I’ll give my regulars some rest”. And you know what, the spring training style lineup might have actually worked if Sean Marshall hadn’t given up a three-run homer to Bengie Molina in the first inning. After that, Marshall settled down and matched Lincecum well for the next six innings; each of them allowed a pair of runs between the second and the seventh.
Tonight, there will be a few sub Cubs in the lineup again (see below), but this time out of necessity due to injuries and several other factors. With Carlos Zambrano on the mound, maybe this time, the Cubs can beat Lincecum; they have done so only once before, on August 21, 2007, and that was primarily the fault of the Giants’ bullpen, though Jason Marquis matched up well with Lincecum that night. I was at that game in San Francisco; here’s the recap I wrote the next day.
There are only three visiting teams that have a winning record at AT&T Park. Believe it or not, last night the Cubs (now 17-16) joined the Dodgers (43-38) and, amazingly, the Pirates (15-14) on that very short list. (Hat tip to BCB reader bison for the link.)
Lineup via Twittermyer:
Fukudome, rf; Theriot, ss; Ramirez, 3b; Hoffpauir, 1b; Baker, 2b; Scales, lf; Hill, c; Fuld, cf; Zambrano, p
Paul Sullivan asks whether the Giants might be a good match for Milton Bradley in an offseason trade and posits whether Aaron Rowand would be a good return:
… both GMs are motivated sellers, and a Rowand-Bradley deal would not be out of the realm of possibility. Rowand has three years and $36 million left on his contract, while Bradley has $21 million and two years left on his deal. Obviously more players would have to be involved, unless the Giants were willing to pay the Cubs around half of the $15 million difference in the contracts.
Well. Rowand has had a mediocre year (and looked awful striking out against Carlos Marmol last night) and is two years removed from his fine offensive season with the Phillies. But he is an outstanding center fielder; getting him would allow the Cubs to move Kosuke Fukudome back to RF (perhaps he could platoon with Reed Johnson there?) and maybe Rowand has one more good year left in him. Maybe some of the difference in salaries could be made up by asking the Giants to take Aaron Miles in return, too. If a deal like this were made, the Giants would probably have to leave Bradley home during any series at Wrigley Field. It’s not the only option or even the best one, but it might be worth considering.
Finally, for the third day in a row, I found a fun photo for which I’ll run another caption contest. Prize again is a DVD of “Chasing October”. Previous winners can enter, but can’t win again (ballhawk and KaliCub, who won last night for this entry).
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The crack in Tim Lincecum’s armor might be his recent performance. Is he tiring at the end of a long season? In his last six starts he’s a pedestrian 3-2, 3.69 with 20 walks in 39 innings. Maybe the Cubs can wait him out and get on base via walks tonight. The more pitches you make him throw, the quicker the Cubs can get into SF’s bullpen. Derrek Lee is 6-for-16 (.375) with a pair of doubles vs. Lincecum, but he won’t be starting tonight. And maybe someday, Lincecum will look like he’s older than 15.
Carlos Zambrano hasn’t faced the Giants since 2007, when they had quite a different-looking lineup than today’s, on August 23, 2007. Z threw OK that day, but allowed his opposing pitcher, Matt Cain, to hit a two-run homer. Overall Z is 4-1, 3.40 in seven career starts vs. the Giants, and has not lost (3-0) in six road starts (2.76) since the All-Star break. Edgar Renteria (12-for-31, .387) and Randy Winn (6-for-11, two doubles, a HR) have hit Z well.
Today’s game is CSN-centric; Chicago and Bay Area. In Chicago it’ll be on CSN Plus, so “check local listings” for the channel on your system (CLTV in Chicago and 285 for the HD version if you have Comcast in the city). For other games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Giants site McCovey Chronicles. Grant, who runs the site, is one of SBN’s best writers.
Overflow comment threads will post today at 10:15 and 11:15 pm CDT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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what do you think?This might be shocking news for lowe fans, but some of you who will say that you saw it coming from a long way away. I can’t say I’m all that surprised though. lowe is fantastic, I hope this doesn’t affect the season.
Want to give yourself an edge? Want the same professional equipment that the pros use? Want to steal a few dollars off the price? Get FREE SHIPPING on orders over $99 when you shop at BaseballRampage. These guys have everything you could need, from bats balls and gloves to cleats, bases, even pitching machines.
Haha, I can’t believe this guy:
“
My how the sports writers love to speculate. They don’t start a rumor mind you, they get a few out of context quotes to make it seem like it’s from a real “the trade’s just about ready to be completed” source. We all know Captain Wrongway Phil Rogers loves to do this stuff in his Sunday ‘mlb whispers’ column. The newest wanna-be GM rumor comes from Paul Sullivan, the Cubs beat specialist from the currently bankrupt (can I count the ways) Chicago Tribune.
Pseudo GM, ‘Paul Sully-My-Reputation’ pulls out the two martini cocktail napkin and draws up trade possibilities for Milton Bradley this offseason. On a bigger picture level he categorizes two “how to unload Bradley scenerios”. Then he paints a classic bad contract for bad contract, real dollar salary swap with the Giants that oddly makes some sense (accent on odd).
Sully Scenerio #1:
A reverse salary dump or more accurately a salary eat and swallow (definitely not tasty). The team that will take on Bradley and the $20+ million remaining on his deal has no “bad” contracts of near equal value (because their inherently low payroll doesn’t have any big contracts of similar value). Kansas City and San Diego get mentions here. KC will have 2 years remaining on Gil Meche’s 5/55 deal but Meche has let everyone know he doesn’t like the big market spotlight. He was a passing consideration during the 2006 off-season where the Cubs rightly preferred to sign Bulldog Teddy Roosevelt Lilly. A deal with these teams would essentially be the Cubs unloading Bradley but still paying the rest of his contract for minimal minor league talent in exchange. I’m not sure if it’s worth discussing this since it’s probably about the same as just releasing him and eating the collard “green”(s). The Cubs have done this before and gotten Jerry Hairston Jr., Mike Fontenot and Jose Ceda level value as players on previous trades to get bigger salary players out of town. So current GM Hendry has gotten something out of that situation before with the most value extracted from the unloading of Todd Hundley’s big contract (2 years remained on a 4/24 deal) for Eric Karros and Mark Grudzielanek.
ESPN even got Padres GM, Kevin Towers to add this nearly tampering quote:
“I haven’t had any calls from Jim about him,” Towers told ESPN.com.
“But I think people kind of know what players we target. We have to take chances sometimes.”
“We took a chance on Milton the first time we had him, and he actually played pretty well before his knee injury.We could be in the market for an outfielder. I’m not saying it’s necessarily Milton. But our experience with him was rather a positive one. It wasn’t really a negative one.”
So it looks like Towers is trying to ‘target’ ex-Cubs in a paint-by-numbers fashion, starting at #22. That makes Bradley his obvious next target. I’m thinking Ryne Sandberg will be the Padres next manager based on this logic.
Here’s the inside poop from KC:
According to Royals insiders, upper management still considers Bradley a talented hitter who could thrive in a low-key environment such as the one in Kansas City.
Sully Scenerio #2:
Finding a trading partner with an ugly contract that makes a bigger financial committment than the current Bradley deal…and Sullivan seems to have found one!
So here’s the punch line:
Aaron Rowand for Milton Bradley. Doing the math it’s a 3/36 vs 2/21 swap. The Cubs would be on the hook for an albeit deferred, $15 million more. Hey, everybody likes Rowand and we all knows how laid back things are in northern California. Bradley would look a bit small (but comfy) in the Barry Bonds barkalounger. Hitting in front of happy go lucky Kung Fu Panda just might work for Milton.
If the Cubs want to swap bad contracts, as they did in the Hundley deal, the Giants may be Hendry’s best option. Center fielder Aaron Rowand has not put up the kind of numbers expected in San Francisco and has three years remaining for $36 million.
Rowand is two years removed from a 27-homer, 89-RBI season for the Phillies and would be a good fit in the Cubs clubhouse.
(addition: and Bradley would be two years removed from a 22-homer, .321/.436/.663/.999 line in Texas)
I hope that Paul Sullivan uses the napkin on that blue cheese (from the olives) dribbling down his chin. A deal like this would make Hendry’s biblical acquisitions: 3 Aaron’s and 1 Moses…shouldn’t the counter move really be a Pharoah Ramses II? That should get the Cubs a player who can really provide “protection” for the middle of the order (of course, that depends on how well the late Yul Brynner can hit).
One last thing…
As suspended Milton Bradley isn’t with the team, I’m thinking I should be looking for him under the bus. Shouldn’t players (in this case Reed Johnson) just keep their mouths shut rather than putting broken feet in them?
“Cubs fans would fall in love with him (Rowand), for sure,” Cubs outfielder Reed Johnson said. “He did well on the other side of town, and I know people … appreciate the way he plays the game.”
“But he (Rowand) takes responsibility for stuff,” Johnson said. “If you ask him, he’ll tell you he could be playing better than he is now.”
**The Grand (where’s) Waldo Hotel Bus**
Oddly, if they do get Rowand, it might just mean Reed Johnson might not be affordable as a 4th outfielder with Sam Fuld as a much cheaper option for that roster spot. With Fuld, the Cubs would be one player closer to a minyon, so that prayers for a World Series win could possibly get answered.
.:”
Any tThoughts?
Every day can be opening day when you open your check-book and see the logo of your favorite Major League Baseball team proudly displayed. All 30 teams available. Coordinating labels and cover are also available. These MLB checks are only $27.90 at DesignerChecks.com
Griffey doesn’t know what he’s gotten himself into:
Remember the guy who caught Ken Griffey’s 600th home run and sold it at an auction for $42,000? Or the dude who wanted $10,000 for Carlos Gonzalez’ first home run ball? Our latest ballhawk apparently does, because how else would he muster up the audacity to demand so much from an obscure A’s rookie outfielder named Matt Carson? Outfielder Matt Carson does not have the ball from his first big-league home run - the fan who caught it Monday refused to give it up unless he was paid for it. “I only want money,” the fan told clubhouse personnel before leaving. “He wanted a lot, too,” said Carson, who like others heard that the demand was $10,000… Does he know who I am? Exactly-he shouldn’t!” Carson exclaimed at a press conference following the game. “My mom doesn’t even know I’m in the major leagues, and my dad still confuses me with my older brother at Thanksgiving dinner. To tell the truth, I’m pretty sure the ball was worth more before I hit it. I’m Matt Carson, for God’s sake!” Sadly, Matt—a career minor leaguer—is probably right. He’s also probably not in the position to drop 10 grand on a symbolic baseball—unless that baseball is made of pure gold, in which case it’d be pretty hard to hit out in the first place. But I digress. This guy is an asshole. A ‘fan’? That’d be generous SF Gate Matt Carson Can’t Retrieve First Big League Homer Ball, Not Sure Why Bleacher Report
You’ve heard stories about ballhawks, those unwieldy characters who scoop up milestone home run balls only to hold them for ransom from the players who hit them. This is one of those tales..
Post your thoughts below.
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